The Mine Shaft Gap

I had this great idea before coming to Albury that I could interview Zev and post a transcript on tMSG. In fact, if the recording was good enough then perhaps I could also do it as a podcast - how cool would that be. But as I explained to Zev upfront, I’m not a journalist, and I discovered only after the fact that the voice recording had failed me completely – almost certainly due to user error.
I can’t begin to describe how angry I was with myself, not only for messing up the recording, but for failing to realise it wasn’t working until it was all over.
The interview itself went well. I still have the original list of questions I asked, and I remember the essence of each answer, in most cases with help from rough notes I took as we went. But the tragedy is that the following is a paraphrased Q&A session – hearsay only, and not an actual transcript. I have asked Z-Man to correct any factual errors or distortions, and he has graciously done so, resulting in only a few minor changes to the draft I sent him earlier in the week.
Perhaps if he returns to Australia for the 2008 tAGE I could get an updated perspective from him then, but ensuring I had a backup plan for any failures in technology and competence.
In the meantime, I hope the following is of interest, and even some benefit to readers, even if it is only a paraphrased dialogue rather than a word-for-word interview…

Me: Is this your first time to Australia? Have you had the chance to see any of the place other than Albury?
Z-Man: Yes and yes. Before I came down I had two days’ sightseeing in Sydney – Taronga Zoo, the Sydney Opera House, etc. But I head for Auckland New Zealand on Tuesday to meet a games club there before returning home. I hope next time I come I can bring my wife and we can see a bit more of the country.

M: It seems that you originally went into business about 8 years ago to renew the availability of the Shadowfist CCG, then grew the stable of games after this was successful. Is this basically correct?
Z: That’s right.

M: Z-Man seems to be one of the few publishers that cheerfully encourages new game submissions from unknown designers, which must be a risky proposition. Has it been a successful experiment?
Z: Yes it has. Certainly not every game we produce creates the results we hope for. But often we’ll bring to market a new game from an unknown designer that becomes a hit. Some that come to mind include recent releases like Gheos [Rene Wiersma] and Parthenon [Jason Hawkins, Andrew Parks], which both demonstrate that there’s success to be had from new ideas and previously unknown designers.

M: So what proportion of your portfolio are original Z-Man publications versus licenses from other publishers?
Z: I don’t know the exact answer to that, but it’s around about 50-50. Z-Man games that are originally from other publishers are either now permanently out of print with the original, or are from non-English speaking publishers that don’t or can’t easily provide an English language edition themselves.

M: OK, say I’ve just invented my first game and I know it’s going to be a hit. In fact, I just know it could be more popular than Settlers of Catan or Magic the Gathering.
What do you want me to do before I send you a playable prototype?
Z: The very first thing I want you to do is to re-set your expectations, because millions of copies (the Settlers comparison) - it ain’t gonna happen. But if you understand that and still want Z-Man to look at it, then have it play-tested, a lot. And not just with family and friends, but with people you don’t know, and with people who are non-gamers.
This is described on the Z-Man website, but before you send me the game you need to send a description. Because if it sounds too similar in theme to other games already available or that we have under consideration, chances are that we wouldn’t want to proceed. But assuming there’s no problem like that and we agree to look at your game, you will then need to sign a disclosure form that we send you. Z-Man is not going to turn you down then steal your idea, but what if we already had a similar game under consideration? A simple signed agreement gives both of us some basic legal protection before we get started.

M: OK, I do all that, and now it’s ready to send to you. What happens next?
Z: I get so many submissions that I need to rely on contacts in the gaming community to play-test for me. So I pass it to the play-testers who will give it a good going over, then come back to me with their views and recommendations.
The timing of this is quite variable and depends on a lot of people’s schedules. Of course I try to get through each and send a yes/no reply as quickly as possible, but it could be days, weeks, or even months to turn them around. For example, I currently have around two dozen recent submissions to work through, plus there’s a lot of convention activity at the moment (including Australia!), so some of those items might unfortunately take a while.

M: What should the quality of the prototype be like?
Z: There’s no rule on this, but make it nice, although we don’t expect it to look like a professionally-finished product. Remember that we’ll get artists to do all the graphics in the finalised game if we go ahead, and source the components as required. But the prototype should be comfortable for the play-testers to use, with legible text on the cards and so on (if that’s relevant) to basically capture the sense of the final game.
Very important, and often not done well, are the rules. Make them succinct and thorough, and you’ll make our play-testers happy. Test the rules again with others who haven’t played before (ie., let them learn the rules from your document without coaching), and include examples of play that should help to resolve any ambiguities.
Oh, and include an envelope and return postage if you want it back.

M: OK, say Z-Man gets good feedback from his independent play-testers, and his own gut feeling is that this new game should be a commercial success. It’s still an unknown designer and an expensive game to make (say to retail in the US$40-50 price range), so its a risky proposition. How many copies do you decide to go with in the first print run?
Z: If it makes it through the play-testing phase and we decide to go ahead, we’d normally do a minimum print run of 2000 copies, maybe up 3000 for the first one.

M: Say the whole process goes smoothly, including the decision to go into production. What’s the total time from submission through to finished product, and when will my cheque (as the game designer) arrive!?
Z: Well don’t forget there are some extra steps in there: We need to get a graphic designer to do the artwork, send the samples, and maybe iterate a few times until we’re happy with the result, and that can take between 1-2 months. Then there’s the printing, which could take 2-3 months. But the final release date is not necessarily when we get the boxes back from the printers. There might be other reasons for holding back the release, such as timing it between other titles, or for a particular time of year. So the whole time taken could be 6 months up to a year.
We keep the designer informed and involved throughout the whole thing, and they will get paid on a royalty basis, usually after the game starts shipping – remember, you can’t get paid until I do!

M: So tell us about some of your best successes from unknown designers, and/or some of your favourites.
Z: Too hard to single out the best successes, but some of my favourites include No Thanks – that’s sold 3000-5000 copies already, and all of the B-Movie card games. But there’s also Gheos, Santiago, and Parthenon to name a few more of my top favourites.

M: Would you like to let us in on any secrets about what’s in the pipeline?
Z: Well, we have a whole “Summer of fun” coming, which lists about 8-10 new titles in the sneak peek section of the Z-Man Games website. These include Owner’s Choice, Fuedo, Attribute, Masquerade, R-ECO, Prophecy, Duel in the Dark, and a few others.

M: I actually meant even further upstream than that. Want to let us in on any secrets…?
Z: OK, well we ran a competition some time ago for new game designs about the old movie monsters, you know, werewolves, mummies, vampires, etc. The winner was one called Monster Liner (as in ocean liner), and that’s going to be one of our next big projects.
There’s another one that I like about building your own robots from scrap metal parts etc., tentatively titled Scrapyard Wars. That’s a scoop for you right there; there’s nothing on the website about that one and I haven’t leaked this info to anyone else yet!
There’s also another new one I’m really excited about that I’m just signing now, but you’ll have to wait; not quite ready to talk about the details yet.

M: I want to ask you about markets. I’ve heard anecdotally that both the US and European markets for hobby/specialty board and card games have probably peaked and are no longer growing. That doesn’t mean people are no longer buying games, just that they’re not buying any more than they did last year. Is that what you’re seeing?
Z: Business has been growing consistently for me, although Z-Man Games is a relatively small publisher. Has there been a glut in the overall market in the US? Maybe. If so, I don’t think it has affected me yet. As I said, we’re still growing.

M: What’s your view of the Australian market and elsewhere, such as Asia? Peaked ? Growing? Too small to matter?
Z: At the moment Asia is not big, although I already have distributors in Malaysia and Singapore. Taiwan and China might be emerging as markets to watch and grow.
Until now, distribution in Australia has been largely direct to retailers, but the problem is with small volumes and the cost of shipping being so disproportionate. It’s like each game I ship has to pay for its own seat on the plane… As a result it’s been too hard for retailers to stock Z-Man titles here in Australia.
However, that now looks like it’s about to change because apart from coming to the Expo to meet the gaming community here, I’ve been looking for local distributors. And I think I’ve now found one in Funatical, which means that Australian gamers should now be able to start finding Z-Man Games in local retail outlets, and not have to have them ordered in especially. So from now on I don’t want to hear that “we can’t get Z-Man titles from Australian retailers…”!

M: With sites like BrettsSpielWelt and others emerging, is the future of BGs all online?
Z: No. This is just my opinion, but I think there will always be a place for the face-to-face, personal experience of games. In fact, I think that sites like BSW and others will be good for the hobby and for publishers like Z-Man, because it’s another means to attract people into the hobby, who will hopefully then go out and buy the “physical” copies off the retailer shelves to play with their friends face-to-face.

M: Last question, what does the future hold for the industry and for Z-Man?
Z: Well, there will certainly be changes in the industry over time. I don’t think the specialty/hobby games market will ever be huge in the US (or Australia), but probably remain a rather niche market. That’s as opposed to Europe, and in particular Germany, where games really are a huge business. In terms of other industry changes, I think it’s quite possible that the traditional structures could change, that is, the existing patterns of distribution and retail.
As for Z-Man, as long as I keep making enough money and having fun, I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing.

(For the skimmers and speed-readers, I repeat my disclaimer from above: This is not an interview transcript with actual quotes from Zev, but rather an informal Q&A session with answers remembered and paraphrased.)